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4-Describing Pinedale & To Tule Lake

Imagine you are in your room at Pinedale. Describe everything you see.

Well we were at the end, so the door was not on the side of the building, but in right here. The first thing you look at is my bed against right window. Left side is the double bed or whatever they conjured up. I think my father made the beds. Then there was a potbelly stove right in the middle, and a window on each side of the building. I don't know where we got the sheets and things, maybe they provided us. I can't remember that far back. So, they must have provided us with sheets for the cots. I think they were cots, really. That's one thing about camp, you learn to be very innovative. We couldn't have knives. So, in those days they had those chimneys made out of steel or aluminum or something. Anyways, they would cut that open and then one edge was where it was safe, so they'd cut that up and make a knife out of it. Things like that.

What else do you see in your room?

Nothing. Nothing. I just saw the partition to the next one.

Was there anything on the walls?

No. Just my mother had conjured up some sort of window covering, that’s about it. No pictures or anything.

What was the transition from large house to small cubicle like?

Oh, it’s a funny thing. I had a good time. What I mean is, I had freedom for the first time. In the sense that my parents couldn't tell me when to eat, what to eat you know, and I made some girlfriends. But I have lost contact with them completely, because we had nothing in common. Can't remember.

You had no anger about the actions of the US government?

Nope. I accepted it. So, get on with life is what I felt, do the best. I mean you'll hear this a lot from Niseis, Shigata Ganai. Have you heard that phrase before? Yeah... that’s the way it is... accept it. There is nothing you can do about it.

Do you remember any mistreatment by the authority of Pinedale?

No. No. Uh-uh.

Life at Pinedale was totally pleasant?

Yes, uh-huh, I think so. We had to have a pass to go out to the farms, and I always got a pass. I always managed to get around, you might say.

You can't remember any unpleasantness?

No. No. Uh-uh. None at all.

So, you felt safe in the camps?

Yes. Yes I did. At least we weren't shot. Uh-huh.

Did you take English classes while you were at Pinedale?

No, I taught English. Uh-huh.

Were these classes mandatory?

No. These were for Isseis who wanted to learn English. But, this language teacher from Stanford University was testing whether the students would learn faster, these students are all adults, if you used Japanese and English, or just straight English. She was tracking that. So, she assigned me to English only classes. Of course, the English only classes they had learned English in Japan. So, it was quite easy, and they knew more than I did. Grammatically, you know?

Were you religious in Pinedale?

NO! I never was. Never am. I mean... excuse me.

Do you remember religion being a big part of camp life?

Well my mother wanted me to become a Christian and join the Episcopalian church, because she thought this Dr. Kitagowa,who became world renowned, was a wonderful man. He was a bachelor also, so all the mothers were after him.

He was in camp with you?

Yeah. Uh-huh. So she made me go to his church once in a while. Uh-huh. But I wasn't interested. So, it didn't gel, no.

Was your mother religious prior to camp?

Well she tried all the religions, because, I mean, we'd go to one church one day and then we'd go someplace else the next day. I don't know what she was really.

Did you have any encounters with the medical staff at the camp?

Yes I did, because I always had a toothache. I went to see the dentist and the first thing they did was just yank out your teeth. So, I lost all my molars there.

Have they been replaced?

Yeah, I had a lot of transplants just recently... not recently... about five or six years ago. Transplants?

Was the medical staff at Pinedale adequate?

Oh, they were all interns. What I mean is they were not full-fledged doctors yet. They were interns or beginning residents. You remember the age group. So, maybe there was one doctor who had a license to practice and he was from Fresno. All the rest were in medicine, but they were not full-fledged, licensed doctors or dentists.

Were the doctors white or Japanese?

They were Nisei or Japanese Americans. It was wonderful for them because like in Seattle a lot of dentists and doctors could not get a license to practice. They had to work under a white person's license. You know that, don't you? So this way they were on their own more or less. I don't know who was supervising them, but they were able to do their practice. Were you aware of that? Wasn't it like that in California too? You couldn't even join the bowling league, right? I don't know, but I imagine the head of the hospital was white though, don't you think?

Were there white people involved in Camp life?

Well, the entire top notch people where white in the camp. Yeah. But I think they were government employees?

What constitutes a top-notch employee?

Well, like the administrator and his assistants, I would imagine. Like head of the PX and head of the medicine, I'm sure.

Did you see any non-Japanese while you were in the camp?

No, they were in the administrative building.

Did you ever have any interaction with the white people?

No, the only one I had was the education, Dr. Francis from Stanford. Dr. King who gave me a test. IQ test.

Were you as rebellious in Pinedale as you were in school?

What do you mean? Well, no I wasn't rebellious; I was independent in school...

How did that independence manifest itself in camp?

No, no one ever gave me a direction. No. They wouldn't dare. No, I'm just kidding. No, no, no. No, I don't remember any rules or regulations.

Do you remember any authority figures?

No. Just sort of minding my own business and doing my own thing. Just looking around.

Tule Lake

Why do you think you were sent to Tule Lake?

Well, it could be where I originated from. Or it could be because I was the last one to close up Pinedale. There was a last group that had to stay behind. So we were scattered all over. So I don't know how they determined which camp you ended up in. All I know, is I got assigned to Tule Lake.

Were there any marked differences between Pinedale and Tule Lake?

Well by the time I got to Tule Lake, I was accustomed to the hot weather. Only thing is Tule Lake had a lot of sandstorms. You breathed sand and you stuffed the windows with newspapers, but it still seeped into your room. It was hot. By the time I got to Tule Lake, I adjusted to camp life.

What did Tule Lake look like?

It was humongous. Pinedale was very small compared to Tule Lake. I think at Tule Lake, they had a quite a number of people there. They had different blocks. Different sections: The north end, the south end, the east end, west end, the middle section, I think. I couldn't walk from one end to the other. If I found a friend on the other end of camp it would take me forever to get there. But fortunately, the PX was right in the middle, where I loved to hang out.

What did you miss most while you were at Pinedale?

Oh that, being able to drive around in my own car. Going to restaurants. Having a choice about things. Hanging out at the library. Like the Seattle Public Library is a lovely place to hang out at, remember? I love libraries, and I love books. It was strange being amongst all these black heads. I mean you couldn't find anybody, because everybody had black hair.

Did you have any resources? You said you missed the libraries, did you have any books in camp?

Not that I know of, no. I don't know where the library was. All I knew was the Sears and Roebuck catalogue.

Did you get to read while you were in camp?

I didn't have time to read, for some reason. I don't know what I was doing. Washing clothes, taking showers, eating, teaching, looking around.

Did you play any sports?

No. I wasn't very social in camp.

Did you do any arts?

No, I just worked on the newspaper as a social reporter, which was kind of fun.

Was the newspaper just for the camp?

Yes, called the... Tule Lake Dispatch.

You said you weren't very social, but you were writing the social column?

Yeah!

How did you end up in that position?

I don't know. Yeah, that's kind of an irony isn't it.

Can you talk about what it was like dancing with Yuki Shimoda?

I took tap dancing lessons with him.

Tell us that story.

Do you ever remember there being concerts or theater performances in camp?

Yeah, there were a lot of talented Nisei, they used to have a talent show, and there was a band. All kinds of entertainment, I think, but I didn't go to too many. I don't know what I was doing. Come to think of it, I don't know, I don't remember.

What types of talent were the performances?

Well, a lot of them, one fellow had his jazz band, and he played the drums and I always wondered, you know, I had a crush on him. I was wondering how they could keep doing the same thing, the coordination must be tons of tapping and banging and all that stuff, I just used to be fascinated by how they could be so coordinated. And the beat, you know, how could they do that? Just continually, and I was just amazed, because in Japanese culture they look down upon entertainers. Because one of our relatives, one of our friend's son, became an actor in Japan. He became quite famous. And the father refused to go see the movies. He said, "I don't want my son in the acting business."

You told us your skills with language were useful in camp, can you think of any instances when your language abilities helped you? You said you were able to get jobs because you were so fluent in English and Japanese, in writing and speaking.

Well my Japanese was very good, because I couldn't understand the other Japanese because they had their dialects, but I wanted to be able to talk like them because it was so interesting, their dialects. My mother always hammered at me that, you know, class will tell, class will tell.

Do you remember a time at Tule Lake when you were forbidden to speak in Japanese?

Nope. Nope. Well everyone was anxious to speak English, I think, even the Issei, wanted to learn English. You know, we were so Americanized, I think, I don't know because the group I went around with they were all professional people, so I don't know.

Was the newspaper all in English?

The newspaper I worked on was in English. I think they had a Japanese paper, I don't know. But it was separate, I imagine.

You said previously that you felt separated from the other teenagers at camp, can you tell us about that?

The Japanese society is very stratified, just like any other society and so I was aware of that. My mother always stressed that, you can always tell class by Japanese language. I was just raised that way.

What made you feel that the teens around you were in a different class than you were?

I don't know, I think it was because they had different interests. They talked about bowling, and jitterbug, which I didn't know anything about, and swing music, which I was just getting into like Benny Goodman. I just wasn't in tune to whatever the youngsters at that time were. My parents were village people, very conservative people, so we didn't dance or anything like that, that I know of, we'll say. That's why when the son became an actor they refused to go see his movie.

Did you have any friends who were later called the "No No" boys?

No. No.

How did you react when you had to sign the loyalty contract?

No, women didn't have to, as far as I knew, because I wasn't approached on that.

Can you describe the few dances that you attended?

I wasn't allowed to go to the big dances, where all the block dances were, but I just went to the newspaper group dances. It was just a small group, maybe twenty or thirty. We didn't have much staff, and we were all sort of alike in a lot of ways. I remember String of Pearls, what was that? Benny Goodman? String of Pearls?

Did kids have special clothes they would wear for dances? What would you wear?

No, I don't remember. All I know was that the boys from California, my father said "My gosh, they wear those tight jeans!" Because we were from Seattle, we wore corduroys. I don't know about now, but now jeans are universal. All throughout the world everyone wears jeans. What else?

Can you tell us about the Hawaiians who were in the camp?

Oh yeah, they lived in the next block. They were wild, they had wild hair, wild aloha shirts, they were different. They'd be playing their ukulele all night long, and keeping everybody up. If you challenged them they'd say something in Hawaiian slang like "golpabrokdoch!" you know, like that. I didn't know what they were saying half the time. I thought, "it's very interesting." They were put in a camp where all the professional people were leaders of the block. That's why they were placed there because these leaders of the block were all educated people who knew how to deal psychologically with these "gangster-rap" kind of boys.

Did they mix with the mainland Japanese at all?

No, not that I know of. They kind of stayed by themselves, they were mostly men. And they enjoyed showing their rebellious ways.

Did they choose to all live together or were they put together?

Yeah, there were about twenty and they all lived together in the same barrack. They were always together. I was fascinated by them because they were so different, you know? They spoke a different language, I think it's called Pigeon English. Being so conservative myself, in a way, it was very interesting.

Were there any instances when you thought of saying "No No," or decided to leave camp?

No, I wanted to get out of there from day one.

Were there any specific times when you said "No-no"?

No. No, I tried to get into the WACS, because you had to be a certain height to get into the WACS. So my father said, "You can't go, because they're camp callers." So I said, "OK, I'll go out for the Sugarbees, and my father said "No, because you'll go wild out there." So I couldn't go to the Sugarbees. The next option was, someone said you could go out to the city, we'll find a job for you. So that's how I ended up in Detroit.

What did you do with your aforementioned girlfriends in your spare time?

We just ate together once in a while, that's about it. She was very shy. We were so different. I don't even remember her name.