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How was your family affected by the Depression?
Of
course, that preceded the Nazi period. Of course I was too young, really,
to know too much about it. Around the time when I was born,
things were very tough in Germany. It was shortly after World War I.
The people were pretty much impoverished. There was a tremendous
inflation, a hyper-inflation where the German money became totally
worthless. For example, finally, at the height of that hyper-inflation,
one gold mark - in other words, the mark was the German unit of value
- if you had one gold mark - an actual gold coin - it would be exchangeable
for one billion paper marks. Of course nobody had gold marks, everybody
had paper marks, right, so it became totally worthless. Then, I
think it was in 1923 or '24, they had a monetary reform where the government
stopped the inflation.
My
father had started his retail shoe business in 1920, two years before
I was born. Of course he had a tough time. But I was too young
to really know much about that. Despite all that and several years
later he became very successful because he earned the trust of his
clientele - the people who lived around there and people came and frequented
his store - even after the Nazis came to power, and told everybody
not to buy from Jews. What people did, they waited until Sunday morning
and they came in through the back entrance to the store so that nobody
would see them come in. My Dad would go to the store, on Sunday
mornings, and they would buy shoes from him, on the sly, so that they
wouldn't be seen.
You mentioned that your father had to sometimes
sell shoes on the sly. Were you ever scared that he might get in trouble?
No,
I don't think that I was scared that he would get into trouble. See,
people couldn't be seen going into his store. The building was such:
the store was in front. Behind the actual store was a courtyard - a
small courtyard. Then, on the other side of the courtyard, steps
led up to a backdoor, and that door opened onto an alley - next to
the little river. If people would come into that door, they could
be going anywhere in the building because the building had several
families living there and the entrances to those living quarters were
off of the courtyard and up to the second floor, also.
People
could be going in from the alley just to visit these people. But they
came in through that door and down the stairs and into the
backdoor of my father's store without being seen. Of course, you
couldn't see in through the store from the street. You see, my father
- before World War I, and long before he stared the shoe business -
he was a traveling salesman and he traveled on foot. He worked for
a store that sold textiles - cloth - and maybe also clothing - I don't
remember. I know it was textiles. He used to go from village to
village - those villages are pretty close together in that area - so
he walked from village to village and he sold merchandise to the farmers.
They
got to know him very well. They trusted him and he was well liked.
He always was honest with them. He made it a big point to be absolutely
honest. That's something I learned from him, too. I appreciated that
quality. He made a lot of friends in the area around the town where
he eventually opened his shoe business after World War I. All of
the farmers from the area came and bought shoes from him because they
trusted him and they became friendly with him. That feeling persisted
into the Nazi period. That's why a lot of people continued to patronize
his business, even on the sly.
Did you ever discuss with your father the events that
were occurring?
Oh
yes, we were discussing them. Very much so.
Did you discuss your feelings with your family?
Did you talk about what was going on at school?
Yes,
of course. Of course. They tried to be as supportive as possible
too. Of course, they had their own problems. Similar problems, but
not like those in the school. They had their problems in the business
and just living under those conditions.
You
see, at the time when I had left, there were a lot of restrictions
against the Jews. But after I left, there were more. Such as, in many
cities - in the parks, for example - they had signs on the park benches "No
Jews Allowed." They had one or two other park benches, which
were exclusively for the Jews - again, to isolate and identify the
Jews.
What were his feelings?
He
understood that there was no future for Jewish children in Germany,
and that's why in 1937 he sent me to the United States. By the way
this is a picture of my father and my second mother and my little brother
and I. Yes, in 1937, he and mother took me to Hamburg and put me on
the ship. It was an American ship: the SS Washington of the United
States lines. When I got on that ship, I immediately felt a breath
of relief because I was no longer in Germany.
By
the way, this is what I looked like at that time when I left Germany.
I was fifteen years old. This is my father and I.
How were you able to get a ticket to go to from Bühl
to Hamburg?
They
were able to. You see, at that time the German policy was to make life
impossible for us in Germany, and to make us emigrate. To drive us
out. About half the Jews in Germany left before the war started.
There were half a million Jews in Germany when Hitler took over and
half, or perhaps a little more than half, emigrated before the war
started in 1939.
From your experiences with Kristallnacht,
what were your feelings about the anti-Semitism that was in Bühl,
and what were your emotions with your synagogue being burned and vandalized?
Did you witness any other beatings or any other acts of burglaries or
acts of arson?
No,
I didn't witness any actual physical violence. Of course remember by
the time of Kristallnacht, I was already in the United States.
I came in '37 and Kristallnacht happened in November '38.
But
my father was arrested, along with all the Jewish men that they could
find in all of Germany. He was taken to the concentration camp
Dachau. He was there about two months. Since their policy at
that time was to drive us out of Germany, they let him out again because
by that time my family had made arrangements for both my parents and
my brother to leave Germany. Those arrangements were already in
the mill, so they let my father out again. About two months after
he was released from Dachau, they left Germany. There's a story
to that too. Do you want me to tell the story?
What were your feelings about Dachau?
Yes,
my father was there. I think I mentioned that in the previous interview.
The morning of the day which is now called "Kristallnacht" where
the synagogue was burned down, all the Jewish men who they could get
a hold of were arrested - including my father - and taken to Dachau,
where he was released a couple of months later because he had already
taken steps to leave Germany and dispose of his business.
He
didn't talk much about it - about his experiences there, but
he came back - you know, it affected him quite a bit. Of course, I
was already in this country, so I didn't see him when he came out of
Dachau. I didn't see him until over a year later, when he came to this
country then.
I
visited Dachau together with Gloria in 1991. It's amazing. The place
looks so nice and clean and almost antiseptic. They tore almost all
the barracks down. They just left two barracks, just as an example.
They have several monuments there - there's a catholic monument,
a protestant monument, and a Jewish monument. Then they have photo
exhibits, which showed what really went on in that camp. Dachau was
the oldest German concentration camp. It was created way back in 1933
and originally it held mainly political prisoners, opponents of the
regime. But it became a pretty horrible place.
Did you realize the severity of being sent to a
concentration camp when your father was sent to Dachau?
I
didn't know much about it in detail. I was in Kansas City, Missouri
pleading with my relatives to do something - to get them out. Of
course, they tried and eventually they did get them out. In fact, when
they went to Cuba on the advice of Senator Harry Truman, who was consulted
by my relatives, my relatives had to put up one thousand dollars cash
to guarantee - with the Cuban government - to guarantee that these
people would not remain in Cuba.
That
they would stay there only as long as necessary until they got the
immigration visa to come to the United States.
When
they were ready to get their visa, it took a while to get that money
back from the Cubans, but they finally did give it back and my
parents came here.
You mentioned that when your father was released,
there was a story? Do you remember that story?
Yes.
Did I tell you last time about their leaving Germany and going to Havana,
Cuba? But, I mean the detail of that? They were lucky. They were able
to get into Cuba, but a month after they got there, Cuba no longer
permitted Jews to enter from Germany.
That's
when the famous ship, the St. Louis, came to Havana and over nine hundred
refugees from Germany - they weren't allowed to land. My father,
and a cousin of his who was also there rented a little rowboat in Havana
Harbor and they rode around the ship to see if they could recognize
anybody aboard the ship.
But
they still saw it. Then of course, the ship returned to Europe and
one third of the refugees on it were taken in by England and they were
safe. Two thirds were taken in by France and Holland and Belgium -
countries that were overrun by the Nazis in World War II, and these
people - again - were caught by the Nazis and a number of them were
sent to Auschwitz.
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