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Joining American Army

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You said after two years in the United States you were invited to join the army and you could have said no. What compelled you to join the army?

First of all, I became an American citizen in no time. It would have taken five years otherwise. You couldn't just come here and become a citizen. You had to apply, and it took five years that you could then become an American citizen. In fact they expected you to, which is another thing that in Europe doesn't exist that somebody would invite you to become a citizen. On the contrary they wanted to remain—even in Belgium, it was almost impossible for a foreigner to become a Belgian citizen. Although there were only nine million Belgians, and the city that I came from in Antwerp had six hundred thousand inhabitants of, sixty thousand were Jews. Some of them were Orthodox Jews. And the Jewish population was completely erased; after the war there was nobody left. They killed all the Jews that they could lay their hands on.

Didn't you want to be in the army? Didn't you have a feeling to participate in America?

That's why I wanted to become an American citizen in no time. I immediately—they couldn't even send me over seas without being American. It was an easy way to become an American citizen and to participate in the feeling of revenge. They gave us a gun to go back. Which other country does that? Nobody ever gave Jews a possibility like that. So I wanted to take advantage of it. I did. I hope that I inflicted as much as possible on the Germans by helping to win the war. As a matter of fact, I felt always it was my war.

Did you ever consider joining the Belgian army?

No, I wasn't going to join the Belgian army. First of all the Belgian army didn't exist anymore. In 1938, the German minister of defense called up the Belgian minister and said, "We are having a big parade. We would like to borrow some tanks from you." "Oh," he says, "sure! Would you like one, two, or all three?" That's about how big the army was. The Belgian army was practically non-existent.

Coming to the United States in 1940, you had an idea or a sense that you were going to join the army?

No. At that time there was no war. America became only involved in 1942, after Pearl Harbor.

What created your sense of what America was before you arrived here?

We didn't really know too much about America. As a matter of fact, we knew that there was a Depression, that this is a rather suffering country. It didn't appeal very much to us. I wouldn't have come here if it hadn't been for the invasion. I'm curious—I am a curious man. I like to see what was going on. I don’t take what other people say; I wanted to see it for myself.

The invasion of Belgium?

Yes.

During this time, did you know where you family was?

Yes. I came home [to New York] and my uncle thought the war had ended. He said, "Is it ended? You're back? Three days?" I picked up my typewriter and went back into the army.

Did you see your parents?

Yes. I saw my parents. Not my parents, but my uncle.

Was your family worried about you?

My parents were in Europe. I had no communication and I didn't know what had happened to them until 1945.

Were you worried about them that whole time?

I would say so.

Did you find out later what they did to survive?

My parents, as I told you last time, the protection was taken over by the Swiss. My parents lived in a Swiss compound in Bucharest, as foreigners in Romania. They didn't get really much annoyed. My brother went to school every day and instead of going home to his house, he went back to the compound. Foreigners were not asked what religion they were. They were taken because they were Belgian citizens and protected that way. The Swiss were neutral, and the Swedes too. Those two countries took over the protection of all the people, regardless of their religion, who were foreigners in another country. You went there and you said, "Here is my passport. I am a Belgian citizen," and they would allow you to come and live there, in their compound. The Germans respected that.

You said you visited Romania because you were family friend with the king, right?

Yes.

Was this King Carol II?

Yes, and he had a Jewish Mistress: Madame Lupescu. Lupo is wolf. The name wolf is a Jewish name.

Was King Carol II a part of the Iron Guard party?

No. Iron Guard were against the king. The Iron Guard were those people who were pro-German.

They were anti-Semitic?

They were terribly anti-Semitic. The king was not anti-Semitic. He had mostly Jewish friends.

I had read on May 27, 1940, King Carol II decided to shift his support to the side of Hitler and that later led to his abdication on September 6th.

No. He left Romania the same train that I left.

This is in early September?

That's right. He left with Madame Lupescu and he went to live in Lisbon and then in Brazil.

Wasn't his abdication related to the territory that he lost during the war? There was a growing sentiment that he was not doing the right things for Romania?

It was very difficult for a man like that to do something. The Russians took a piece away, the Bulgarians took a piece away, the Germans came around. Everybody was pouncing down on Romania. The Romanians were not Slavs. They were actually Europeans, descending from Romans. It was the province of Dacia that Romania. The king was of German origin, but his mother was, like most people in Europe, was a relative of the queen, Victoria. Queen Victoria had lots of daughters who were married to all kinds of princes and kings all around Europe. In Spain, everywhere, the relatives of Queen Victoria were everywhere. He was one of the relatives of Queen Victoria.

Beginning in 1930's wasn't Romania economically dependent on Germany and therefore tied to them in some ways?

No. Romania had a lot of gas, petrol, and was tied to Russia, actually. The king of Romania was sort of a ridiculous person. A film was made called "Le Roi," on the life of King Carol II. He was a man who took this not very seriously, and—he collected stamps. He did all kinds of other things than reign in Romania.

You didn't get the idea sense that he was either, by his will or not, taking the side of Hitler?

He never took the side of Hitler.

How was your family friends with him, what was their relationship?

My uncle was Consul of Romania in Belgium. When the King had to leave with Madame Lupescu, they came to live in our house. We lived in a very fine house in Belgium. Then a year later, he was called back to the throne, so my uncle became the Romanian consul. Every day he spoke to my uncle on the telephone, the king. Mostly in order to get lobsters from Ostend and he would send us caviar. We would have caviar in the house, like jam. Romania was the country of caviar, on the Black Sea. But the king was sort of a ridiculous personality.

I read that the king, because of pressure from Hitler, had given Transylvania to Hungary. It was related to either a request from Hitler or a deal with him?

No. Actually Hitler is not involved in that. Transylvania had been Hungarian all along. After the First World War, it was given to Romania as a reward for having joined the allies. They took it back. The Germans said, "We'll help you." But actually the Hungarians took it back themselves. In Transylvania you spoke Hungarian. In Romania, you spoke Romanian and mostly French. Life was very lavish in Romania. They had a lot of money because of the gas that they had. They had everything. They had wheat. The country is a very rich country. But part of Russia was the Bukovina. They took that back, Chernowitz. They dismembered—the castle became bigger and bigger and the country became smaller and smaller.

Why did you end up staying in Romania for so long?

He had seen me as a young man and somehow he remembered me. He asked me and my brother to come to Easter, you know the orthodox Easter Catholics. So he informed me that Belgium was going to be invaded the next day, and I called my house in Antwerp and the maid said that my uncle was in town. I knew that my aunt had been in France already, you know this cold war going back and forth, so I wasn't worried any more, but what I didn't know was that my aunt had just returned from France to Belgium because there was no war. That night the Germans came into Belgium and invaded. That was a surprise. So I couldn't go back home.