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4-Reflections and Photos
What's something that you think you've learned because of your experience?
The thing I learned about being interned in Topaz was that I didn't think myself just as being Japanese any more. I felt that I was just as good as any other American. In fact, I felt much better after my experience because I have done more. I have prepared my self more. I have done service... I have been in college. And after looking at different people because I went to Detroit and every place else, I felt that I felt pretty good about myself. I was better prepared than most guys. and I was better qualified and I could do more. Even to this day I feel that way about myself. I don't feel timid about myself anymore. I feel that I am just as good as anybody else and I probably do better than most guys that I know.
[Discussion among interviewees: Is there anything in his whole story that doesn't really make sense or that you are left wondering about? Go back to some of the things he was talking about on that one list. He was talking about all these examples of discrimination: that he was shot, he had a hard time getting a job, getting a house, he was discriminated against in the Army itself. And then what does he go on to do for the 30-some years? Is there a question in there for you?]
Facing so much discrimination, what made you continue in an organization that seemed to discriminate against you? What made you continue to contribute to a society that seemed to take away what was rightfully yours?
Even under these discriminations, you have a goal that you want to do. I felt that, "Here I am, being discriminated," but I could try to overcome it. I tried to be better qualified for whatever I was trying to do and see if I could be much more qualified than I am at that period. If I was qualified on the job, I would say, "Hey, maybe I'll qualify myself by being more,"—better educated and better qualified to do that job. These are the ways that I tried. It seems to work pretty good. Every time I do something, it seems like because of what I did before and qualified myself, that I got promoted again. In the Army, what happed was I went to the Command and General Staff School, and after that, it says that the more people do that, gets to be into a Field Grade Officer, in other words where you can become a major or Lieutenant Colonel, Colonel, even up to General, because if you don't have that qualification, you are not going to make it. Anyone that goes through Command and General Staff School can get into become a Field Grade Officer, in other words, a Major, Lieutenant Colonel. That's what I do.
I do the same thing even at the civilian life. What I try to do is I take advanced courses—extension courses. What I do is work on another segment of the job, in other words, transfer different sections. Here I got this qualification and this qualification, so eventually, the guy that knows both sides can lead both sides, right? If you just qualify right here, you don't know too much about this and the guy says, "Hey, you don't know too much so I can't promote you." That's what happens. At that level I went and did different jobs. Like I did design right away—that was a state job—I did surveys. Pretty soon I covered a lot of bases. What I tried to do was I tried to do the best job I can, not just lay back on it, I tried to improve that section so that they're much better than what they used to be before I got there. And then they said, "Hey, this guy could do it," so then I move up.
Pictures
What is the GHQ patch?
That's GHQ, headquarters. That's General MacArthur's patch. And then the one next to it is the civilian patch that we wore so we don't show our rank, since we didn't have any rank.
What was the reason for that?
Because we didn't have any rank, in order to be talking with other people with more rank, then we don't have to show our rank.
When you were interrogating, were you wearing some kind of Army uniform?
It depends on who I was talking to. If I was talking with a commissioned officer I'd use this. I really wore this because I usually wore civilian clothes.
Tell us about this picture.
I'm an investigator so I don't wear my rank, I could wear civilian clothes. These are translators, up here. And this was the Japanese national that we hired.
What kind of roles did they have?
He would do just about most of the interrogating because he was very much more knowledgeable in Japanese than our guys.
Which is you?
This is me right here, I'm an investigator because these guys are not investigators, they would be translators for other investigators.
What is this picture?
This is during the winter time. We are going on an investigation to another island.
Who is in that picture?
That's Finnessey and myself, and Finnessey was very good in Japanese too, so I didn't have too much trouble with him at all. He was married to a Japanese-American. We were going to Satow island, we had to go by boat.
What about this picture?
This is the U.S. Army Transport Funston, that we were going back home on. It's a terrible ship, though.
What do you remember about it?
We slept on bunks that were stacked five high and had salt water showers, and we lined up to eat in the chow hall standing up. When we got into the Pacific Ocean it went up and down and the propeller jumped out and you could hardly sleep, and everybody was seasick.
Why were you on this ship?
We were going home. Now days they fly you home, but in those days they sent us out on transports, and you stay about fifteen days on the high sea. You get sick for sure, you can't eat. You get salt-water showers, and then you have to stand up and eat, and the food would go back and forth, you have to hang on to it.
What is this page?
These are all the Geisha girls we met in Japan. We always have nice dinners when we get together. I never got so drunk in my life. Don't mix your whiskey with sake, that's the golden rule. You'll get sick for sure. Stay with one brand.
Anything else about you're free time?
All the government officials always give us a banquet every time we meet them because they were very good about that. They always give us a banquet because they like us.
Can you remember that event?
I remember Captain Chase, and one of our guys finally got a promotion, the warrant officer. That was the only guy that had rank, because our unit didn't have too much rank. One captain, one lieutenant. He made warrant officer, because he wanted to go home. They said "We'll keep him," so he became warrant officer. Otherwise he was going to go home.
Who are all the women?
These are the Geisha girls at the party. For every man they had one Geisha girl, ain't that something? It was a company party, a detachment party I mean.
Are these all Japanese-American men?
No, see this is a Japanese-American and the rest are Caucasian, these are all the Caucasian guys. These are all investigators. They were all investigators, see all the investigators were Caucasian except me. The rest of the guys were Caucasian.
Why was that?
I went through CSE school. Most of the guys went to language school. I didn't go to language school.
What was the role of the Geisha girls?
They would make sure that your drink is never empty. One thing you don't make a mistake is, if you think you're at the end and you want to finish up the cup, they'll refill it again. So if you don't want to drink anymore, you have to leave a full cup, that's one thing you got to do. Because every time you drink, they fill it right up.
Did the soldiers date the women?
Some did, yes. But when we first went there it was, "No fraternization." You were not allowed to get married.
Married? What about sex?
That too. In Japan they had regular house of prostitution, but they were dirty, terrible. Girls aren't pretty as these girls. Everybody has to be on their knees.
That's why you have to drink so much?
No, there's no chairs.
Right on the floor?
You sit right on the cushions.
That's a tatami matt?
Yes, you just get a regular cushion and you sit with your knees. It's very hard on your knees.
