page 4 of 11
Play MovieApril 6, 2006 - Part 4 of 6
Section below transcribed by Joseph Werhan (intern).
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Was your family still in Japan when the war started?
Yeah.
What was it like for you to be in America and for your family to be in Japan during the war?
For me it was hard because I was by myself. I had to earn my living and naturally it was hard in those days because you couldn't make much. I went out in the country and worked during the summer—but you could only come back with maybe a hundred fifty, two hundred dollars. That was about all you could save. But of course school was cheap at that time. We went for one semester for twenty five dollars at UC. That was cheap. Two semesters a year. The school fee was cheap, but the living—you had to make your own living too. That's the part that was kind of hard.
Were you worried for your family when the war started?
No—I just knew that we couldn't do anything. When we went to war with Japan there was no way of communicating anymore. So I didn't know anything until after the war. I couldn't go back right away because I didn't have money. It took a few years before we could get enough money to go back. Then I learned from my parents that they were almost starving. They said that there were days when they didn't eat anything—they only fed their children. They were starving that much. You knew that they were on the verge of collapsing anyway—didn't have to drop the bomb. If they waited out a couple more months they probably would have surrendered. They were starving because they couldn't bring anything in from outside because the Navy was abolished almost. Airplanes were all shot down almost. They didn't have any kind of a way of getting outside or communicating with the outside.
I looked at things that way when they dropped the bomb. I thought it wasn't necessary. I knew that from the way the war was going on that they didn't have very much left in Japan. As I said the Navy was shot to pieces and the airplanes kept being shot down—they didn't have very many airplanes left either. I knew that Japan was in a very bad shape. I knew that because Tokyo was air bombed even before the atom bomb was dropped. Tokyo, Dagoba and other cities were air bombed already. If you knew Japan—Japanese cities were just like paper—paper and wood. They just burnt down. That’s why Tokyo was almost completely burnt down.
Do you remember where you were when you first heard about the bomb being dropped, and what your reaction was?
I don't remember exactly where I was. When I heard it was bombed I looked at a map to see where they dropped it and they showed that the center of the bomb was near the center of Hiroshima. That's where my relatives were. I said to my wife "If they were home, they're gone." I found out later that they were home. They couldn't even find a piece of bone they said—of them. My father's oldest sister and her family—three generations—were wiped out. Except her son, my cousin, and his baby boy were saved because they went visiting his wife's parents the day before the bomb was dropped. So they were saved. But the rest of the family were just gone. My father's youngest brother—he and his wife and he had a daughter—were wiped out. Nothing left of them. Those were the only things that happened to my family directly.
My mother was saying that they went out the following day to see if they could find our relatives. My mother and my brother's wife—the two of them—went out and looked around and couldn't find them. They came back but they helped bring in some of the hurt people. Everything was wiped out in Hiroshima so there was no place that they could take hurt people. No hospitals—not even the schools. They were all wiped out. So they had to bring all these people out—they used the schools in the outskirts. They used the schools as hospitals. So they brought them out there. She was saying that some of them were so hurt, she said their skin was draping down and they asked to be killed. They said, "kill me, kill me" because they hurt so much. You know how much a little burn on you finger hurts? They had it all over their body. All burnt. You can imagine how much it hurt them.
Were any of your relatives or family members in the Japanese military?
No, not in my family. My brother was lucky because he was a Postmaster and naturally that kept him from getting sent into the army. He didn't have to go. He was lucky.
How did you feel about the American government after they dropped the atom bomb?
The American government and its treatment of the Japanese wasn't bad after the war. People in Japan were thankful for that too. You heard comments about that from different people. They said that the Americans did treat them alright. We brought food in to them too.
Were you angry with the government?
No, I'm not angry with them. It's part of the war effort. I just looked at it as part of the war.
Can you tell us about life in the internment camps?
Life in the camps was very harsh. Especially at the beginning—because as you can imagine—250 people going to a camp. One family in one room—whether you had teenage girls and teenage boys—you didn't have a separate room for them. All in one room. If you had a baby and it woke up in the middle of the night, you don't have a refrigerator and milk and a stove to warm it up in. You had to go to the mess hall and warm up the milk—get it from the ice box in there and warm up the milk—and then feed the baby. It was very very inconvenient at the beginning. People had diarrhea. You had a whole line of people waiting to go to the restroom. And the restrooms were primitive—very primitive. They just had the bowls. They didn't even have a partition between things like that. It was very hard.
The laundry room was the same thing. You only had a couple of these old-style washbasins. They had a couple of those—no washing machines. A lot of people go at the same time so it was really hard. Finally they took turns. They said, "number so and so to so and so will use it at a certain time." They got more orderly. It made it a little easier that way. Eating was the same thing. They started to say certain numbers would go first and eat and then the next one would go in. We learnt to do things in an orderly fashion to make things easier.
Can you talk more about your personal life?
In camp my personal life was—I was busy running around trying to get things done—I guess that helped keep me from thinking about things. I didn't feel anything against or for the government. We were busy—especially during the first period because they sent in people before the barracks were really finished. They made the barracks with green wood. After about three months there would be about almost an inch of space between the boards because they shrink. And then they had the dust storms and the dust would come blowing through the floor. It was real hard. I put on a mask with a handkerchief. It's hard to breathe then—you wet the thing—It was really hard.
Did you get sick?
I didn't get sick, but maybe that's why I got pneumonia. I got pneumonia of the lungs later. That could be part of it.
Tell us about what the day was like when the loyalty oaths were issued.
My personal feeling I already stated that personally I was for winning the war—that we had to fight this war and win it.
What happened to you that day?
I volunteered for the army.
Can you describe that day—when they issued the loyalty oath and you volunteered?
I was just trying to convince people to volunteer for the Army so I just got up and spoke at the meeting. Being in a leadership position I felt that I had to do that.
What did you say?
I told them my position—that I felt that we had to defeat the Nazis and the Japanese militarists because if they won the war and conquered the world we would be in a worse position then we are now. I said the way the Germans are treating their prisoners and the way the Japanese army is treating the Chinese prisoners—I said they would be treating us the same way. That's the reason why I urged that everyone who is healthy to volunteer for the army and fight to win.
Can you describe that day? Did they hand out the questionnaires?
Everybody was talking to each other because when this came out a lot of discussion went on because after all the government put us into the camp and then they're asking us to fight for them. So there was a lot of discussion going on. Of course, afterwards one of the first generation men came up to me and said, "Why did you volunteer?" I told him, "Well I'm an American citizen for one thing," and I said, “we should fight for our country”. He said, “okay” and that was it. There were some camps were they had fights—but our camp didn't have that.
In the camp, what was your social life like?
There wasn't very much you could do—you could only get together and talk to each other.
Did you date Chizu in the camp?
Later on—after I got to know her—we would walk around the camp. That's about all you could do. Hold hands and walk around and smooch every once in awhile. That's about all you could do. There was no place— no movies you can go to even. The only place that—if you want to go into a house—the only place is your own room. You can't go into somebody else's room. That's the way it was for everybody—not just Chizu and myself—but for everybody. It was hard.
Was there anyone before Chizu in the camp?
Not really. I dated different girls but never anyone steady.
Can you describe how you met Chizu?
The first time I saw her she was walking up between the barracks and she was singing. I could see her humming away and just walking up and I thought oh she's pretty level. I didn't know it but she was coming to our meeting. We had a discussion meeting and she came.
How often did you have the meetings?
We had [them] at least once a week—sometimes more often. After all none of us had anything to do. You could meet anytime you want almost. Of course you didn't have anything to eat or anything because you can't go out to the store and buy some cookies or anything. You couldn't do much but people came because they were interested and they didn't have anything else to do. We had some fairly nice groups.
You said you had met Chizu going to the meeting?
She came to several of our meetings—in the mean time I was in housing until then. That's another interesting thing. When I came off the bus—we came to Topaz on a bus—when I got off this young fellow comes walking up—he was at school with me at Cal—and he says, "I'm head of housing—how about working for me?" I said, "Sure I'm not doing anything." That's how I got into housing. So I became the head of housing from the head of the Japanese group with him. I guess he felt that if he had somebody he knew it would be easier for him too. So we did things together after that.
On the last day of housing—Chizu was in Los Angeles—and so on the last day their group came up. They were sent up to join the San Francisco group up in our camp—they came up the last night. That night they said it was going to rain and they hadn't finished the roofs of these buildings. We asked the Army to stop sending the people in because they weren't finished and they said no they can't stop it. So they sent the people in anyway. Here it starts pouring down at night—I had to get up and I ran out and I commandeered all the trucks and cars I could get a hold of. I took the ambulances and everything. The doctors were mad as heck at me for that. They said, "Hey, we're keeping those for emergencies" and I said "Well, this is an emergency!" So I took them anyway. We brought all the mothers with babies first into the hospital. Then if there was room we brought in other mothers and younger children. I got up late the next morning and they told me that the people from camp that came in were mad and that they were going to beat me up. They said they came out with bats. But I got up late so that by the time I went to the office everything quieted down, I guess.
Why were they mad at you?
Because I was the head of housing. Why didn't I stop it, ya know? So that's what happened anyway. But after that that was the end of housing because there's nothing more to do because we put everybody away. After that social welfare took over and the head of the social welfare asked me if I would join him. He said I like the way I talk to the administration. He wanted me to come in—where he can't talk to them—and have me talk to them. He was a good guy. Later on he took Chizu and myself out to movies with him. We went out to the small town—Delta—and saw movies and he took us to dinner and things of that sort.
During the camp or after the camp?
This is while we're in camp. I was working in social welfare then.
Can you talk more about your job in social welfare?
There really wasn't much in social welfare. What he wanted me for primarily was to talk to the administration about different things. There really wasn't much for me to do. It's only once in a while that he said that he wanted something done so can you bring it up.
