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What was your childhood like when anti-Semitism grew
in Germany?
I
went to elementary school in 1932–I think '32 about, I don't
remember all the details. It was a Catholic school that's almost all
Catholic, it was a Catholic school, boys' school. And on the other
side of town was a girls' school. I was the only Jewish kid in the
boys' school of eight hundred boys. And in the first year or two, the
first year more or less, it was okay, there was nothing, it was like
normal. But then the word was out that I had to sit in back of the
class–now remember I was six years or seven years old by then–sit
in the back of the class. And I was refused a report card, at the end
of the year you get a report card but I never–I got it for the
first year–but then I never saw a report card.
I
also remember that as a child at that age I don't remember how I felt.
But as I get older, in very recent years, I feel very strong and it's on
my mind often, how horrible it had to be for my parents. My sister
was two years younger than I am so she came even later, and the same
thing happened to her. Until in 1930..., the end of '35 about–I
don't know exactly–we left, and we left overnight because it
was impossible. As an example, in the summer the city or the town had
a community swimming pool, an outdoor pool, and I remember in the first
year of my school I was allowed to be in the pool. The second year,
in second grade, I was told to sit on the bench, I couldn't be in the
pool. "Why?" You know, because I was a Jew. That had to be
hard on me, even though I don't remember my feeling, I remember where
I was sitting. That had to be horrible for my parents and my family.
That much I remember.
On
the block we lived in there were four boys all in the same grade, we
were all neighbors in a small town, it's one block, houses across the
street from each other. And then about 1934 maybe '33, '34, the other
boys were told not to talk to me anymore and not to play with me anymore.
So I had no one to play with and only for one reason, my religion.
It
was even harder on my father and my grandfather because they were soldiers
during the First World War for the German army, they fought in France.
My mother's brother fought in France, my mother's father was a soldier,
my father's brother was a soldier and was killed in the the First World
War. And they all were soldiers in the German army because they were
German citizens. And then, all of a sudden, because of their religion
they were not acceptable any longer. So you asked me about feelings,
that's what we felt in those days I'm sure.
And
that happened to jobs, there was no such thing as jobs outside if you
were self employed. And I know by 1935, '34, '35, you couldn't have
cars any longer, you couldn't have a motorcycle any longer, you had
to turn in your bicycles which we all had in those days. Then our telephones
were cut off because it was also not acceptable any longer to the German
government then. So it was a frightening thing, I'm sure, especially
for my family rather than the children. We were sheltered, of course.
What were some of the specific measures against
Jews that prompted your family to move to Holland in 1936?
It
started with travel restrictions, I don't know exactly the sequence.
In school I was told when I was in second grade that I had to sit in
the back of the class. I may have mentioned earlier that I went to
a school with about 800 boys, it was a Catholic School. The girls went
to a separate school. I was the only Jewish person in the school. I
was asked to sit in the back of the class. I got a report card the
first year and then I didn't get one anymore when everyone else did.
That was it as far as I am concerned. The same thing for my sister
who was two years younger. She went to the girls' school. But as far
as my parents are concerned they—I don't know the year it really
started, it had to be about 1934-'35—there were travel restrictions.
We had a telephone, of course, which in those days was not in every
house like it is today. The phones were taken away. We didn't—I don't think we had to wear a star yet, the Star of David
you know,
you've seen that in pictures. But it was very noticeable.
The
neighbor kids – the kids I grew up with – couldn't play
with me any longer. I lived on a block where there were four boys and
we were all the same age within a month or two. They were told they
couldn't play with me any longer. Just the general atmosphere was very
difficult. There were newspapers – like what we see today in
the Arab countries we saw the same thing in Germany in those days – about
the terrible anti-Semitism. It was just a very difficult life. My father
had tough time from there on in too maintaining his business, so were
others too. There were signs very early where it says. "Do not
buy from Jews." And the Jews had to put in their stores a sign
in the window which says, "This a Jewish store" so people
wouldn't go in there. There was a whole orchestrated system which came
out of Berlin, out of the headquarters of the German government to
do this. They were were very well organized and, from a PR point of
view very, well orchestrated.
How were you notified rules that they passed?
The
police would tell us and the papers would say it. There were no direct
lettering to the individuals but it was done automatically, it happened.
Do you have other specific memories of that time?
I
was beaten up quite a few times. We couldn't go to school anymore at
one point so we went to a religious school in another town, we had
to go by train to the next town, it was about forty five minutes by
train. Of course then we had to wear the Star of David, you've seen
that with the "J" on it, and that came in Holland too later on.
That's basically how I remember it.
I've
tried for many years not to think about any of that because I have
a good life here and I don't want my children to be affected, and some
of you know my children. It was very hard for me not to talk about
it and I never talked about it until they were about fourteen-fifteen
years old because I've seen that some of my friends talked too much
about it to their children and they messed up their kids. I was very
lucky that I had the will power and whatever else it took not to discuss
it with my children. I wanted them to be as normal as all American
kids are and they are. Any other questions?
The four boys that lived on your street that you mentioned
earlier, were you friends with them beforehand?
Very
much so. We grew up together on the same street, we were all born on
the same street. Until we were about seven years old–maybe eight–they
couldn't talk to me anymore because if they did their parents could
be arrested. One of them was arrested, as a matter of fact, one father
was arrested because he was a friend of my parents and he talked to
my parents. People were finking on each other. The police and The Party
came and the Brown Shirts they came. It was very difficult.
But
the details – I haven't seen any of these people ever again, except
for one person who found me, the sister of one of the boys who was
my sisters age, she's still alive we correspond. She is a very religious
person and she feels very bad, I know, because she keeps on writing
me we call each other sometimes. And we are very fond of her and I
know she feels the same about us, she has visited us once here. But
that's unusual. I cannot go back to Germany, it's just too hard, the
memories. They burned the temple, we had a temple where we prayed every
day, every weekend, and that was burnt down in about the middle '30's.
Cemeteries were desecrated.
Did you feel a sense of inferiority when you were
younger when the neighborhood boys wouldn't play with you?
Well,
that's a good question, I never thought about it that way. I may have
had that at that time as a child, but if I did I don't have it any
longer, for whatever reason. But sure, obviously, I was standing in
front of the house and no one would play with me. Being seven years
old that obviously made it possibly very difficult. I'm sure I cried
a lot but my parents did the best they could. But they had their own
problems. They had to keep it together. And to make a living, the livelihood
for us people was totally diminished almost. I know my father had built
a house when they got married in 1925 and we just left that house,
we just left it. I never tried to get it back because I didn't want
to be involved with this, I'm sure there was some value but I just
didn't want it inflicting on my mind. So the house was there, so the
house was there, big deal. It would have been too traumatic to fight
that. It happened again the second time in Holland. I didn't do it
either because I'm very happy here and I want to put that beside me,
behind me rather.
How was Holland different from Germany?
We
left Germany in the middle 30's –'36 about, '35-36. In Holland
I felt very strong that – first of all – I was all of a
sudden welcomed by my peers, my age group. This was all new to me.
There was no anti-Semitism in Holland. We never noticed it, it was
very a free country, liberal, and also there was a deep respect for
one another in Holland. The population was great. We felt enormously
accepted. My father opened a store again. First he found a house that
we rented for us. Then he bought a store in the heart of town. It was
a very small town we lived in about maybe 6-7000, 8000 people in those
days.
We
felt very accepted and we had a very good life there for four years,
a very good life. Not economically – I am not talking about – because
it was hard for my parents because they had lost everything. We left
Germany overnight. My parents had built a house the year they got married
and we left the house and everything. We just went over the border
during the night to get out because otherwise it would have been even
worse. And so we had to start from scratch. We had some relatives in
Holland, my Grandmother's two sisters were living there with families
who got married there. The distance was only about 30 miles approximately
from the town I was born in to the town we moved to. It's much closer,
it's hard for Californians to understand. this is large state. In Europe
it is much closer and smaller countries especially on the west coast.
And after about four days the Germans bombed Rotterdam. clip missing last sentence
What changed in Holland after the German invasion?
Good question. The
Germans came to Holland on May the 10th, 1940, two days from today,
from now. The first six to eight months was OK until they got their
bearings in Holland. The war lasted about five days and after about
four days the Germans bombed Rotterdam, the second largest city in
Holland. They killed approximately, I am told, about 40,000 people.
With the ultimatum to surrender to the Germans because they were held
back at the river that was going from north to south about thirty miles
past of us, west of us. The Dutch government – the queen and
the family – left for England. And parts of the Government went
to England. The Dutch government surrendered to the Germans because
they said, since they bombed Rotterdam they would do the next thing
which would be Amsterdam, which is almost as large as Rotterdam, and
it would have been as devastating as Rotterdam was.
So
the Dutch people in charge of Government they decided to accept and
stop the army, etc. They surrendered, that was the only thing they
could do. They couldn't have won a war against Germany in those days.
Holland is a very small country, only 8 million people living in the
country, in the entire country. There were about 140,000 Jews in Holland
all over the country. They had lived there for centuries. I remember
I had some research done about ten years ago in the town I was born
in, in Germany. They found gravestones of my family namesake, they
go back to 1460 to 1530, in those days there were there were Lowenbergs
living there. In Holland the town we lived in the majority of business
was dairy, agriculture and textile – weaving factories for the
main factories which were about twenty five, thirty miles away. In every small town
there was almost a textile factory of making the cloth. There are none
any more today, they all moved offshore. They same thing is happening
here.
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