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I
developed my first pneumonia and I go into the hospital. Do you know
what pneumonia is, any of you? What is it? What is in your lungs?
Fluid. How do you get it out? With tubes or with medication. In those
days they
didn't
have medication and they didn't have any tubes. They would drive a
needle in your back into your lungs, without any anesthesia. And you
stand there against the wall, stretched out, and another prisoner drives
the needle in and sucks out that fluid. And that needle is an 1/8 of
an inch in diameter. It has a very long point on it. Whwet! Every other
day they suck. My first pneumonia is over, I now develop a second pneumonia
in the other lung. Same routine.
Finally
I'm healed. Don't ask, I have a lot to tell you now and that you really
want to know.
I come
out, I am discharged, assigned to a barracks in Auschwitz, go in. It's
a Thursday. I start developing pains in my belly. Can't sit, can't
walk, can't sleep, can't lie down. I have a constant feeling like I
have a bowel movement coming and I can not move my bowels. On Friday
morning I go to the clinic, doctor looks at me, checks me out, gives
me two aspirins and a piece of paper that says I do not have to go
to
work
that day.
I
go back to my block, I give to the administrator and I go to my bunk.
Can't sit, can't lie.
Saturday
morning I go back to the clinic, two more pills - two more aspirins,
another piece of paper, and I go back to the block. Sunday the clinic
is closed. Monday I go back to the clinic. Doctor looks at me checks
me out and says, "Are
you still here"? I said, "Yes." Gets on the phone, calls
somewhere, and they tell me to walk over to the operating building,
where they are going to operate on me. Until that time, summer of 1944,
no Jew had ever been operated on in Auschwitz.
I go
in there, I'm being prepared, I get a spinal anesthesiology. Do you
know what that is, any of you? They freeze you from the neck down.
You can see, you can't move anything - you are like a piece of ice.
On the table, the operating lamp over the table, I am down, I can look
into it and I can reflect onto my body looking into the lamp. One orderly
is standing next to me on my left. I can see a man walking in with
black boots and a white coat. Can't see his face. He walks in. And
the doctor is standing over there, and Sssstp! I have a four day acute
appendicitis that is ready to burst. The doctor removes by himself
the appendicitis, sews me up. The man in the black boots leaves.
And
I'm taken as a block of ice to a bunk, put down. and said, "Get
well." There's no nurses there. You get an extra blanket because
when you thaw out you start clattering, you become like this [shakes]
until the thawing process has finished. You get an extra bowl of food
in the morning and you may get some aspirin to help you get over the
pain. And in this shaking, pus is beginning to move in my belly. After
a few days
I'm
taken to another operating room, they cut me open, drain out the pus,
and let the wound heal by itself without any stitches, which means
like raw flesh just growing out.
Was it common to be operated on?
No.
When I had been operated on and when I had become a prominent member
and I worked in the Packetstelle and I had filled out and
felt good, that question bothered me, "Why was I operated on?" Because
until then the normal situation had been, "You get operated on?" No,
not as
a Jew, you went to the gas chamber. So I went back to the clinic. Of
course at a certain hour the clinic has no work anymore because you
know everybody is working or they've been there and they're all in
the blocks. I went to see the doctor who had taken care of me then.
I said, "You know what bothers is why was I operated on?" He
said, "I had the same concerns." He said, "I couldn't
figure out why you were operated on."
So
one day I met this SS officer again, the doctor, and I asked him and
said, "Look I have a question that's bothering me and I want to
ask you if you don't mind." He says, "Fire away." I
said, "Why did you have that Jewish boy operated on? I can't figure
it out?" "Ah," he said. "OK, let me explain. When
I was a student in Germany to become a doctor, all our textbooks – the
pictures – were all white, grey and black. So here was the first
time that I could actually see what an acute appendicitis looked like
in a body ready to burst. So that’s why I had him operated on.
I could actually see in color what that looked like on the inside." And
that’s what that doctor told me when I asked him that question.
That’s why I am here because the textbooks had been in black
and white. I mean it’s absurd but that’s the way it was.
Every doctor who has seen those scars looks at them and says, "What
butcher worked on you?" And I explained what I just explained
to you, I said, "That was no butcher, that was a guardian angel." And
in many ways it was.
Was the surgeon a prisoner?
Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. The interesting thing is he had no helpers. You look
at the movies that you see on TV now – the ER or the other hospital
[shows] and you see all these people around the table. I laid on the
table there was a screen in front of me, the lamp was up there on the
operating table. There was an orderly standing to my left, a fellow
prisoner. I had been given a spinal as an anesthesia, which means you
freeze all the way down. There was a doctor on my right side. He cut
and he did the whole God damn shmear. Everything, there was
no helper. Two people working on me and the SS doctor who came in there
and stood there watching. That's it. No nurses. You heal yourself.
It's all "Damn it, now that they have done this to me, I am not
going to allow them to kill me."
I have
made acquaintance during my pneumonia, I made acquaintance with
another Dutchman who had the same problem. We became friends. He had
been a
professional trumpet player in Amsterdam and in Holland since he was
fourteen years old. His name was Lex von Weden.
During
that time frame or shortly thereafter, all the Polish musicians in
the camp who had been part of the orchestra, had all been removed and
shipped to Germany. And suddenly there were no musicians for the orchestra.
We used to march out of the camp with military music, five abreast
through the gate when we were counted off. And suddenly notices appeared
now throughout the camp that if you could play an instrument there
would be auditions for a Jewish orchestra - or anybody in the camp
who could play and instrument, Jew or non-Jew. And Lex went out to
audition. As he was playing his trumpet, one of the SS men
listening came up to him and said, "Didn't you used to play on
the radio in Holland, on Hilversum?" And Lex said yes. He said, "I
recognized your style of playing the trumpet - you're accepted, you
are going to the orchestra. Lex became the first trumpet chair and
a few weeks later he became the conductor.
I'm
still in the hospital. He has become a "prominent member" suddenly
by this job that he holds of the camp. Some Kapo - do you know what
a Kapo is I take it? - a Kapo came to see Lex and said, “Lex,
I want you to do me a favor. I want you to teach me how to play the
trumpet.” And
he said, “Deal,
provided,” and he said, “Provided
what?” “Provided you do me a favor,” he said. “What's
that?” “A buddy of mine is in the hospital, he's about
to come out, he needs a good job. I want you to take him on into your
detail.” He said, “OK, I'll do that.” So I line
up, and the work leader, who is a fellow prisoner, now goes down the
line, comes to me and says, “139829, nobody of your transport
is still alive, you’re about the only one, I believe.” He
said, “Anybody who can live that long around here deserves a
good job. You go to the Packetstelle." Never heard
of the Packetstelle?
It turned
out the Packetstelle is where all the packages come in for
all the prisoners who are in Auschwitz or in the sub camps. And the
packages that come in are all filled with food, and if you are alive
on the day that the package arrives, then that package goes to you
wherever you are in the sub camps. And if you are not alive, all these
packages are opened up and the food is sorted out for the kitchen or
for other purposes. One of the purposes is that everybody who works
in the detail can steal whatever is available.
Were you ever offered a position as a Kapo?
Was I ever offered a position as a Kapo? No. Never.
What did you think of them?
You
think good and you think bad, depends who they are. I mean, not all of
them are bad. Not all of them are good. They are all in-between, like
all people. They have power. Some of them use their power very poorly.
Some of them use their power to ammeliorate the conditions that their fellow
prisoners are in. It's not a hard fact that you can say "All Kapos
are bastards," because some Kapos did help out. It depends what type
of person that Kapo himself is and how he wants to remain a Kapo in the
sense that he is responsible to the person in charge of the block, which
is a fellow prisoner, because that's how they all get assigned these duties.
And
so here I am in this detail, where stealing is the day’s order
of business. Inasmuch as you are in this detail, you are now reassigned
to a new block, a new building, strictly for people in the detail and
other "prominent members” of the camp. Suddenly I had
become a "prominent member” of the camp. And this will be
totally absurd to you, as it was to me when it happened, but after
I had my own bed, my own bed sheets, my own blankets, my own pillow,
I had a toothbrush now, I had toothpaste, I had handkerchiefs, I had
socks, I had underwear, I had undershirts, I had an own cabinet where
I kept my food.
I
was "prominent," and
I could buy things with all the food that I could steal. And so because
you were prominent you had to have a custom made suit. So you had made
a custom made prisoner suit, with hand printed numbers, for here and
there, and a hand made cap. And I had shoes again, not wooden sandals.
And all of a sudden, by the end of 1944, I had been filled out better
than I came to the camp in 1943, with the rationing in Holland. I was
eating everything good under the sun. I was smoking the best cigarettes
that came in the packages. You couldn't think of a better life, almost.
How did
you get ahold of the underwear and the special clothing?
The
reason I got better clothing is because of what had happened to
me prior to me getting to the Packetstelle.
And it practically leads us all the way back into October of 1943 when
my number was called out and I was
assigned to the tischlerei, the carpentry
shop. When I registered – when I arrived in Auschwitz I had learned
from
myself studying
in architecture
that in order to be a good architect you need to know carpentery well or
masonry work well. So when I had put on my registration card that I was
a carpenter by profession, lo and behold in October I got called and I
was put in the carpentry detail.
To
move fast forward, in the meantime I got one pneumonia, then a second
pneumonia, and after I was cleared from my pneumonia I went back into the
camp and that very same day I start having incredible pains. On Friday
– this was on a Thursday – on a Friday morning I went back to the clinic
and
reported of my pains and they gave me two aspirin and a piece of paper
that I didn't have to go to work. I went back on Saturday morning, the
same thing two aspirin and a piece of paper. On Sunday the clinic is closed.
On Monday I went back and the doctor who had seen me before who was a fellow
prisoner said, "You're still here," and I said "Am I not
supposed to be?" He got on the phone and he called the SS medical
facility and a doctor with whom he spoke said, "I told the doctor
that he had a 20-yr old Jewish boy here who had an acute apendicitis that
was ready to burst. What do I do with him?" And that SS guy said, "Get
him ready for operation I'll be right over." [clip breaks at end]
After
I had all that behind me and a friend of mine had been promoted – who
was also from Holland and a trumpet player – who had been promoted
to become the conductor of the new orchestra in camp. A Kapo came to
see him
and said, "Lex, I would like you to teach me how to play the trumpet." Lex
said, "Fine, but you have to do me a favor." And he said, "I
have a friend of mine who is coming out of the hospital who needs help.
I want you to take him on in your detail." And that turned out to
be the Packetstelle. When I came there – that is where you could
steal food – and then after I think I was in the Packetstelle for
two weeks when I was moved from the regular block into the Prominenten. Prominenten means "special people." Prominent ones. Because of
my thieving and my stealing
of food
I was now able to have custom-made tailor-made suits, a tailor-made overcoat.
I was able to buy shirts and underwear and shoes and socks and handkerchiefs.
All the things that we had been accustomed to in Holland but as a piss-poor
prisoner you don't get any of this.
And that's how I had these clothes when I hit the train to go to Mauthausen.
And I'm convinced that Lex was responsible for my survival.
We were told that there was some trading of goods in Auschwitz...
Every
concentration camp has a market. Every camp had a black market in which
things that came in the packages that people got from their families –
which were all non-Jews who got those, Jews did not get packages. Basically
non-Jews who came from Poland, Czechoslovakia, all the East-European or
French countries, most of these people were farmers. They would send
packages to their family members, be they sons, fathers, brothers. And
in these packages – what wasn't already stolen by the SS – they could then
trade on the "market."
There
was also trading done - and I was involved in that, if that's what you're
talking about - which was, having a needle and thread was very important.
And why was it important? Because you could help sew on numbers on trousers
and on jackets. And for that you could get bread. You gave services
and you can consider that being trading on a market. Having a clove of
garlic, it was very important because you could rub it on your bread
and it gave a little bit of flavor. Of course we all have learned since
then
that garlic is very good for your health as well, but we didn't know that
at that time. A piece of garlic which you guarded with your life if
you had one - was, "You want to rub my garlic? I need a piece of bread." Everything
had a value. Trading.
The
very prominant ones, they trade for cigarettes. They wanted cigarettes.
Or they would buy services."I want a shirt." Well, you didn't
have shirts made, they would steal one from the people coming on the train,
from the Kanada, and you get a shirt. Whatever you want could
be done.
I
remember Christmas of '44/'45, the last Christmas of the war, and I was
in the Packetstelle and the Kapo of our detail said that we should
give a very nice gift to the camp commander. And just think about it for
a minute,
I mean the absurdity of the idea, that you're going to give a gift to the
guy who's keeping you in prison. Right? And who can kill you on the whim
of a moment. So we all said, "What did he have in mind?" He wanted
to give him and his wife one of those silver tea sets, or coffee sets,
you know these big things that you can get at – what is it on Post Street
and Grant, it starts with an "S" - a silvermaker, whatever his name is.
And so we did. And they would not bring the whole damn thing in at once,
but
pieces
would
be brought
in through
the
underground
in the
camps
and they were all assembled and then he would put these on a cart. Looking
at it now in my mind's eye it looks so weird, thinking back. And they would
take it to the camp commander's home and give it to his wife.
And
she would say "Ah, how beautiful." It was all stolen from
the Jews who had come in on the trains. That's how it was done. It was
a weird society. It was absurd. When you look back on it now, it was idiotic.
But that was how you stayed alive. You gave favors to others, and they
in turn would remember you.
Lex,
whom I have mentioned, for instance, he used to play with a combo at
the camp commander's house when he had a social. And when he was on
a trial for his life after the war, he asked Lex to vouch for him, and
how nicely he had treated him. And Lex told him to go "Kiss off." I mean,
just
because he treated him, thousands of others had to go to the gas chambers
because of him. "And now I should speak good words of you? You must be
insane." He was hung.
How did you stay healthy and clean?
How
do you stay healthy and clean? It was up to every prisoner on
his own. You didn't have towels, we didn't have soap, we didn't have
wash cloths, we didn’t have underwear. I am talking before I
became a prominent one, OK, when I was a regular prisoner. You didn't
have underwear. All you had was a pair of pants and jacket and in the
winter you got an overcoat. The only thing to keep you "healthy" was
at night to get the fleas and the lice and kill as many as you could.
There were no toothbrushes, there was no toothpaste. There was only
cold water. Maybe once every three to four months late at night you
were rushed out and you were run through the showers, at which this
time you were got a clean uniform. And that’s when I was saying
earlier when you have the needle and the thread if you could save that,
you could make "a living" – you know, "can I have a
piece of bread?" – because you could sew on the numbers
on the jacket and on the trousers. Staying healthy and clean are
words
in 2003 that mean entirely things that they meant to us then. You were
never clean. When you had to go and move your bowels there was no toilet
paper so you had to get either scraps of paper that you find on the
job site and put them in your pocket, or a piece of cloth that you
would use to wipe yourself with. Then you would wash that out in
cold
water and dry it against your body from your body heat. That’s
how you did these things. Healthy? Health was beyond you. You did the
best you can getting rid of the fleas and the lice.
Did you do this on yourself or did people help
each other out?
No,
no no, no, no, you did this all yourself, just like the monkey who
sits there. Its not like the monkey who sits there and does it on his
kids
or on
other
monkeys, you did this all yourself. There was no help whereby somebody
says, "I'll get your lice you get my lice" type thing. No.
You did it all yourself. Its just a matter of lice and fleas they do
bring disease and they basically nest themselves in the seems of your
garments and so you sit there and you go inch by half inch through
your garment and kill the lice and the fleas would try to jump away
and you get them and that sort of thing. It was an endless job because
the next day they were just filthy as the day before. It was a task.
Jumping back a little, you said in the last interview that there
was so much happening when you were first arrested that it was hard to
have emotions. When did everything truly hit you about what was going on?
I
think I said earlier, when I came to Buna, when I suddenly burst out
crying. That's when it first dawned on me what really... it was weird.
Even when
I was talking to you all about the ride in the train, in the boxcar
- the copulations and the things like that which to me was difficult
to
understand.
But when I came to Buna and when I really burst out crying - I mean
when it really dawned on me what I was in for - that's when I first realized
what life was going to be like.
When
emotions took over and then after the guy had talked to me and had
calmed me down and told me that if I wanted to survive I had to abide
by
these rules - the emotions went out of the window. And pure day-to-day
living began. I've always – and I continue to make the same claim,
I've always made the same claim and I continue to - that in a concentration
camp the
easiest thing to do is kill yourself. You gotta make up your mind, you
want to die, all you got to do is run for those electric wires and they
will start shooting at you and you're dead. Your whole troubles are
over with.
The most difficult thing today, and then, is to stay alive, to live, because
it will bring you problems. But you don't know what the problems are going
to be, but you want to wake up the next day and see what life is going
to
be like, what it has in store for you.
That
same thing is in the camps except in a much more difficult way. Self-survival
in a camp becomes the overriding factor. And the lucky breaks that I've
told you about. The operation. Being sent from Buna to Auschwitz was a
very lucky break with the damn finger. That they read my registration card
and saw I was a carpenter was a very lucky break. Meeting Lex was a
very lucky break. Luck has a lot to do with survival. Don't forget that.
Don't ever forget that. But also, when you have the lucky breaks, take
advantage. Use them.
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