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Back to when you were liberated, can you
describe that day?
Liberated!
Oh! That was a joy I was not to enjoy because we were about to be shot
- I am going back to that. What happened that they suddenly gave us
a handful of sugar and a handful of raw macaroni? And that was the
biggest question in my mind about what happened, until really about
less than five years ago that I finally found a book which described
this rescue mission. So we were taken to Denmark first by these vehicles,
called the White Fleet. I am going about this backwards. OK. Back to
the shooting.
We
were ordered to get back into the cattle car, apparently, because they
carried me back into the cattle car. By that time the dead people were
pushed out and I still don't know today what they did with the sick
people. The rescue mission, by Count Folke Bernadotte, who was the
head of the Swedish Red Cross and a member of the Swedish royal family,
was trying to liberate the Scandinavian prisoners out of Ravensbrück
concentration camp, from the last camp I was in. And he spoke directly
with Himmler about it. And first he was told, "No, let them all
die." But Bernadotte did not want to go back to his country. He
stayed in Berlin during those last terrible days of the war. During
which time, a few days later - maybe a week or two later - Heinrich
Himmler sent and emissary to bring Bernadotte to him, that Himmler
wants to talk to Bernadotte.
So
he came and Himmler had something else in mind however. He told Bernadotte,
that he wants him to become a go-between for a separate peace treaty
between the Allies - except for the Soviet Union - and Germany. He
was told that this will not be a piecemeal peace treaty, this will
have to be a general overall peace treaty - that the Allies will not
do anything without the Soviet Union, and that we are in on this together.
And Bernadotte, in bringing this report back to Himmler, said, that "Himmler,
do yourself some good because it's a matter of days when the war will
take a big turn and when the Allies come they will string you up. Let
these people go." And Himmler told Bernadotte to take them out
of Ravensbrück. In the meantime they assembled the Scandinavian
prisoners in Ravensbrück from various other concentration camps.
And along with them they permitted about 12-13,000 people to be released.
And they were other than Scandinavians.
And
so it happened that I fell into this group when they caught up with
our train and liberated us. The train actually had to go up north to
Denmark and I was told that they dumped us on the other side of the
boarder and the White Fleet rescue mission had to go back to Ravensbrück
to pick up other prisoners. And from that point where we were dumped
- and I have absolutely no recollection, I was still out from the beating
- when I woke up I was already approaching Copenhagen, I was traveling
through the Danish countryside. I remember hearing voices, first of
all I heard that we are free and soon we will be in Copenhagen, and
I heard a German soldier say, "You are lucky you are free, I have
to go back to face the music." That sort of thing. And I thought
I was hallucinating, because throughout my incarceration period, there
were many stories that were not true, and after all we were not exposed
to any news whatsoever in any form. And so I think the inmates must
have invented some of it just to keep our hopes up.
So
it was, I remember entering Copenhagen and all these people standing
at the station waving little Danish flags and brown bags, they were
behind barricades. And I heard the church bells ringing. All the church
bells were on. And I was so moved, I couldn't believe this could be
true and that people are there smiling at us behind barricades. They
really want us to be free. And we made it. And I looked around and
there were dead people all around us. These were inmates who just couldn't
- they were so weak they couldn't live long enough to enjoy it. And
of course once we ate and ate ate, and became terribly ill from overeating
and some of them died. I don't think I even touched mine. I reached
the point where I wasn't hungry anymore and I think what I saw nourished
my soul more than food ever could, just to see people smile at us.
Then
we were taken to a ferry boat and we crossed the Öresund and arrived
in Malmö, Sweden on May 3rd, 1945, just five days before the war
ended.
When you were just being liberated did you ever feel that something
bad might happen in the future, that there might be a relapse of like
another Holocaust experience, that you were only liberated for a few months
maybe and then something would happen again?
I
don't know. I felt threatened for some time. But I, we had people
talk
to us that we may feel that way. And it did linger for some time until
we learned to trust and, until we began to read that Germany is kaput,
Germany has lost the war and, and they're not likely to rise again. And
we were hoping that, if that's so then perhaps its people – that the
German
people – will have learned their lesson when they've learned all
about the camps, certainly those who didn't know before.
I
don't know, at times I still, I really feel that it, the Holocaust
can
happen again anywhere, anytime, to any people, any race and any color
unless, unless we are on guard constantly to eradicate hatred and prejudice
and discrimination among all human beings. Yeah, we have to learn our
lives, I mean live our lives in such a way that we are
kind to each other and respectful and prevent another Holocaust from
ever happening again.
Do you think you would have survived five
more days?
I
would not have survived five more days. I was in such bad shape. I
hadn't eaten for days. Many years later when we had a reunion I learned
that I wasn't out for hours that I thought, but I was out for days
because from the initial time when we had to go back to the cattle
car instead of getting shot, that cattle car went from camp to camp
nearby to pick more inmates because there was lots of room because
so many died. That's what we did but I just wasn't aware of it.
In
fact I visited some of these camps where we went and I had absolutely
no recollection of any of it. I was hoping that perhaps it will trigger
the memory, but the vision wasn't there to trigger it, I guess. This
is my way of explaining this because I went back to all the other camps
I was in and even one that has become an industrial park since and
it's right by the seashore and I remember the contours and we found
it and inquired and that's exactly where that camp was outside of Hamburg.
But you wouldn't recognize it normally. All the landmarks were missing
other than the seashore just the way it was carved out by the water,
by the waves.
So what happened next.
When
we arrived in Sweden we were taken to a beautiful high school with
an olympic size swimming pool, where we were sprayed with DDT from
head to toe. We were given new clothes and we showered and we started
a new life there. But since we numbered into the thousands we were
distributed into the various communities of the area. I was sent to
the charming little town of Landskrona, which is right by the seashore
and from there across the Öresund, the body of water separating
Denmark from Sweden, you could see Copenhagen, the lights shimmering.
And later we were taken to a public school building in Landskrona where
I was kept in quarantine. They closed down the high schools early because
there were not enough hotels. So the high schools took the places of
hotels. They took out the furniture and the fixtures and they placed
mattresses on the floor. Many years later when I returned there and
I told those who were with me what we did. And they said, "Oh
that's horrible, you had to sleep on the floor!" I said, what
an improvement that was over what we had before. That was a wonderful
way to handle us.
They
first took out those from among us who had contagious diseases. I didn't
have any contagious disease. I still can not understand how - I sat
on people who had typhus and died of it and tuberculosis and I never
caught any of it. I just think I must have a terrific immunity system
or something! Or God certainly was with me. I make no mistake about
that.
And
while we were in quarantine, after I felt better, I asked my doctor
if I could use his bike. I saw him come in - everybody came with a
bike, all the nurses and doctors who worked there - and they just parked
them in bicycle racks. And he said, "Take anyone you like." And
so, there was this huge school yard, and I was the youngest member
by the way on this transport to Sweden. And so, when I felt better,
I took a bike and rode around the school yard, because I used to have
a bike at home. In fact my brothers all had bikes and I inherited my
brother's bike when he grew older and he received anew one. So I had
a boys bike where you had to put your leg across. That was fine with
me.
So,
here I was riding around the school yard and a Swedish family inquired
about me and asked my doctor what shape I was in and they told him
that they would like to adopt me, for me to become a sister to their
daughter, Gullan. And Gullan was just one year younger than I. They came
everyday and brought me things from home, and this was so wonderful
for me to see someone so-called normal, who had a normal life. And
I was so eager to have a normal life because everyday was really a
very sad day. Every time the mailman came in our quarantine, you know
you just kept your finger, "God please, have a letter wait for
me." But it wasn't always a good one once in a while when a letter
came in the beginning, the war was still on for five more days. Eventually
many more letters came, by that time many were transferred out.
When you were in Sweden, what was your experience
after being liberated, was it hard? You already had a mentality that
it was hard to trust again. And what was it like being able to walk alone?
We
were in Quarantine, of course, until they took out all those who were
ill and sent them to various hospitals for treatment. But the rest
of had, we all had problems. We were all totally emaciated, and secondly,
we had malnutrition problems. I had malnutrition problems because
I was only 14 and 15 during the Holocaust and I should have been eating
nutritious foods. Instead, I was starved. Consequently, the
way I understand the doctors, my body was consuming itself. And so,
there are all these sores to deal with. I still have a photo, the one
I just referred to, four weeks later, and I still have a bandage on
my leg. There was a big crater over here, and over here on my shin
bone.
I could actually see the bone. What happened was, that the skin would
reduce to so thin, like sheer skin, just sheer little skin, already
it reached the bone. The thirteen operations that I've had, had to
do with malnutrition from the Holocaust, because the spine didn't grow
properly, the shoulder didn't grow properly.
One
of the experiences I had in Sweden, this was, I don't know whether
to laugh or cry when I tell this story. My Swedish sister, I lived
with a Swedish family after I was released by the Red Cross who wanted
to adopt me. I didn't want to be adopted. I went to live with them
because I was hoping to find my very own family, and in my mind, if
I had consented to be adopted I would have given up on my family and
I was not about to do that. They understood, and they permitted
me to come and live with them. So we became sisters, my Swedish sister
was just one year younger than I – Gullan is her name. Anyway,
so we had a dress made, it was difficult to buy material at this time
after
the war, even in a country that was not involved in a war. So, we found
a little bit of this material and a little bit of that, and so we had
dresses made, by a dress maker.
And
when we were getting ready to go to a party, for a birthday party,
and so I went into the bathroom, and, there were all these wonderful
little bottles on the shelf. I thought I'm going to put some perfume,
behind my ears, and on my wrist, and so I came out, thinking I had
done it, and that people would tell me that I would smell good because
I couldn't smell. And so Gullan comes, and calls me "Hunsi," my
nickname then, "what did you do to your dress?" and she pointed
to a spot over here, and she says "Oh my god, what did you use?" I
said "It's
perfume, or cologne." And she says, "Come and show me." So
I went to the bathroom to show her, and it was her father's hair oil.
I couldn't smell it and I thought it was, I couldn't read what it said
on it and it was hair oil and it just dripped down on my new dress.
And I remember crying. It was my first new dress since the Holocaust.
Everything else I had was used, but nice, but used. So, I'll never
forget this, because it's already a reaction to a Holocaust related
experience, you see, that is, the loss of my sense of smell. And actually,
that is when I realized that I can no longer smell.
Gloria continues to talk about letters received while
in quarantine.
We
began to receive letters. Sometimes we [were] brought very good news
and somebody was alive and we would hop up in the air in dance for
joy. Somebody else saw a brother or sister or mother of so and so being
murdered. So don't wait for them to make a life, make a life for yourself.
This is the type of news that reached us. It's still very raw with
me because although I was 15 years already the biggest fear I had was
that I was going to be the soul survivor of the family.
At
the same time, you see, we were approached, especially as young as
I was, and there were hardly anybody else that age. This was Youth
Aliyah, a group of people who were looking for young people or orphans
- because most of us were orphans - from the camp to bring us to Israel
and build a Jewish state. I decided if I couldn't find my family in
the United Stat - my family and then my mother's family were all in
the U.S. since World War One. If I can't find my immediate family or
my family in the U.S. that I would go to Israel. I have to be somewhere
where there are other Jewish people where we are no longer pursued
simply because we're Jews. That would be my place.
I
was thinking about this so much. I wrote every day home to the Czech
address, to the Hungarian address. No mail, no mail, no mail. And finally
the war ended five days later. I went to live with the Swedish family
and I slept in the same room as my Swedish sister, Gullan. One night
I woke up I said, "Gullan, Gullan! Wake up! I learned that my
uncle's address is 5236 Delmar, St. Louis [Hungarian]." That's
what I called St. Louis because in Hungarian every letter is pronounced.
And so she jumped out of bed and brought me pencil and paper and said, "Write
it down because by morning you'll forget." So I just dutifully
wrote it down not realizing the significance of this other than not
to forget. And in the morning she ordered me to write that letter and,
by golly, my uncle received that letter. I missed it by two numbers
within the same block - in those days I guess the mailman knew the
neighbors.
My
uncle notified my aunt in Kansas City, Missouri, my uncle was in St.
Louis, Missouri. I had cousins in Arizona, New York - just all over
the place. And one day I received a letter from my uncle. And that
was just - the world opened up! The skies opened up! God was smiling
at me!
My
uncle wrote "you were the first one that showed a sign of life." And
this worried me because, here it was - I was liberated in May and my
mother and my sister should of been liberated from Auschwitz if they
were alive, on January 27, 1945. And so they should of been home long
enough to write. After all I've been writing so long.
Not
for about a half a year later I finally got a letter from my mother.
She said we heard your name over the radio and different people came
to tell me you're alive but I didn't dare believe it because we saw
you being taken away. She knew that nobody comes back from the gas
chambers. So she already went through the hardship of loosing a daughter
and a sister - my sister's part. I asked her what should I do with
my life and she said as much as we'd love you to come home but we think
you would have a better life in America.
Did you ever get a chance to see any of your immediate family
after the Holocaust?
It would take seventeen years, before I first saw the surviving members
of my family. Because I was separated from them, well we were all separated
from each other, except for Annuska was with my mother and Sandor
was with
Dad. But after Auschwitz, I no longer had anyone in my family.
Oh and dad, I would not see my father for seventeen years. From the time
of arrival in Auschwitz. It was at that, I went to the Soviet Union.
Finally they let me in for seven days, seven days. Imagine they were
going
to give
me only three days. And finally we agreed on seven days. And those
were
very precious moments. We were up into the night, not wasting any time,
talking and talking and talking. And I've learned about Dad's experiences
during
the Holocaust. Very sketchy, sketchily because he didn't really want to
talk about it yet, too much. But he also knew that I want to know
and that
he wanted to give me some information.
You talk a lot about your mother, but not that much about your
father, what was your relationship like with him?
The
reason for that is because we were totally separated. We didn't
see them,
and we have no idea. I mean we had no idea where they were or whether
they were alive. We didn't know this until long after the Holocaust.
So
that
is why
I don't talk about my father pertaining to the Holocaust experience at
this time. But I do talk about him when I learned what he went through,
but that
was after the Holocaust.
In
the meantime in America my uncle and my aunt in Kansas City made out
papers for me to come to the United States. And so I knew that I had
a choice and my life changed totally. So I stayed with the Swedish
family, un adopted, until I came to the U.S. and we're still in close
touch. My foster father passed away a few years back and just about
two years ago my foster mother passed away and my Swedish sister is
still alive and so is her husband. I love them very deeply.
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