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I would love to know if there were other ways in which they identified you, other than just the star. Was the star the only identification?


No numbering, nothing else?

Not at that time. No, just the star, yes. Of course your physical appearance somebody would interpret it that she must be Jewish, he must be Jewish. No, that was the only way.

Who applied the stars to your clothing?

Pardon me.

Who applied the stars to your clothing?

We just received the stars and my mother sowed it on.

What did she tell you whenever you received the star? Did she explain anything at all?

I don't remember that. I don't remember that. I will go back to what Howard said, I often will not have a specific sharp memory of when did it start with the star or how did I feel about it. I am just guessing how I felt. I was so part of everyday life.

But can you tell us the story then of once you got the ticket to leave and then the story of then leaving and then preparing to leave and what you remember about that?

I remember only that it went very quickly, and we became concerned about were allowed only a certain amount of suitcases and what are we going to take, and that was a very. I remember that that was very hard for my mother. It was hard to just take a suitcase and walk out and leave everything behind. My grandmother lived with us at that time and she stayed in the apartment and the dog stayed, (pause) and I am going to get upset now. Can we turn off?


It's interesting.

What was the trigger for you? I'm just curious.

The grandmother and the dog

missing segment 23-40

Section below transcribed by: Artem
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You had to have some type of activities that you were able to do other than the work. Were there any activities provided for you- painting, drawing?

We had poetry readings, and we had theatre.

Oh! Tell us about the theatre.

Yeah, there were scenes from plays, and I did not participate really in that. But Uh,

Why was that?

Oh, just to, see there was a Council of Elders, In Gymnasium and they were very good, They knew that we needed something to elevate our spirit or just some fun there was some orchestra, some music, some plays, Uh, I said poetry readings, so as close as I said before as close to a normal life.

So you did not participate in actually doing any of the acting, or...?

No I didn't, I was to shy, I think I was to.

Did any of your friends?

No, not that I remember, No.

Was there any other art work, or anything else there?

There was some painting, painting, Yeah, painting classes.

Where did you paint?

I didn't, but you could go outdoors and just paint if you had the paper, the problems was always to always have a pencil and paper and the supplies were very limited.

So were you too busy with your boyfriend then?

You keep coming back to that. I was busy working, and I don't know what I was doing actually, walking around, Uh, talking with friends.

Can you tell us a little bit about who supervised the camp?

Well as I said there was the Council of the Elders, they were Jewish. There were no Germans there,

Oh, really?

No, It was run very well. Uh, I don't know.

Did the Elders work for the Germans?

There were, I think yeah, they got direction from the Germans. Yes. I didn't know anyone on that council actually, It was all done in the background, It's like now you don't know really what the government is doing unless you here about it on CNN. Uh, It was well organized. Um. I really don't know much about it.

If you did something that you were not suppose to do were there repucussions?

Oh, yes! Oh, yes.

What was that?

Uh, if it were serious there were hangings. There was, yeah.

Did you actually observe the hangings?

Yes, I do write about that in the book, I did from a window, Uh, you know, yes, yes, um,

Do you remember how you felt? Do you remember what you saw?

It's in the book I just observed some men being lead down the street to a door in the wall and that is all I saw and the hanging was behind the wall.

Was this still the Elders that did this?

Oh, no! This would have been at the direction of the Germans. This would have had to been for a serious, MOST often it was for somebody who tried to escape or even if you tried to get a letter. Sometimes it was very sever punishment. But, mostly it was trying to escape.

So you said there weren't any Germans there, so who?

Not present, but it was run, supervised by the Germans but the Council of Elders actually ran the ghetto.

So the people who would have tried to escape, would have been caught by the Germans on the outside.

Yeah, yeah.

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